Destination Linux 162: Ikey Doherty Interview, Stuart Langridge Guest Host

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This was a good one. I am going to state 3 key point in the podcast, Flatpaks vs. Snaps / ISP’s selling your data as an added revenue stream / and the BIG ONE ! "BETAMAX vs. VHS"

I will say, I am a Flatpak supporter, and am working on repackaging .rpm’s to flatpaks with the new tools available by the Fedora team. flatpak-builder , rpm2flatpak & fedmod Basically having a .yaml or .json file of the build can get you started otherwise. the tools can build the .yaml or .json script for you if done properly !

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As a long time developer who used to fiddle with my own games to learn new programming concepts (mostly in C & C++) this episode was especially fascinating to me. Good stuff.

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lol yea the Betamax vs VHS debate was a surprise to me :smiley:

That’s great to hear! Thank you for doing that work!

I personally feel that Snaps do offer some things better and the argument of picking Flatpaks instead is not practical. I say that because Snaps are not just desktop where Flatpaks are and so Snaps offer more options to deploy server software in a simple method. This is what makes Snaps a bit more useful overall and will probably be what makes them the first choice for many devs. Flatpaks are very nice for Desktop apps and in an ideal world we would have Snaps for server or IoT and Flatpaks for Desktop. However, theres no reason to limit Snaps off the desktop technologically so it is what it is.

very cool! I’m glad you enjoyed it! :sunglasses:

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In regards to VHS vs Betamax, I am with this guy.

VHS was a better design over all. Much, much more clever. That said, my opinion on universal packages, I want Snaps, Flatpak and AppImages to continue to progress in their own way. I think they all have a place. I’m not a developer and neither of them are my preference (openSUSE OBS is the way to go IMHO), but you cannot discount Snaps as I think they are better positioned in capturing 3rd party commercial software. I say that because businesses generally have more faith in something backed by a corporation. You can find many examples of that.

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Great points all around. :slight_smile:

Regarding Snaps vs. Flatpaks, I say use the correct tool for the job.

I tend to lean towards flatpaks, but that’s because I’m a desktop guy.
Snaps are great on servers.

PS: Flatpak support is coming to Pamac (Manjaro’s GUI package manager) in version 9.4.

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I don’t fully understand the concern with having the 3 universal packaging types. Like I get the argument around all these different distributions and different associated packaging requirements could potentially put off some software developers from going through the hassle of releasing on linux altogether.

But surely that isn’t an issue if there’s many different universal packaging types. It’s actually probably better for a company looking to release on linux. They only have to do one package type, and they can choose whichever one is easiest for them, be it appimage, flatpak or snap. Whichever they choose, they only have to do the packaging once, so win win right?

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Also, that Stuart guy was great. Not afraid to disagree on a subject, but always backed it up with a calm and well thought out response, and in a way that encouraged debate. Would be great to have him as a co host more often.

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At this stage, I too don’t see any issue with having 3 different universal packages. It is not like an application developer needs to release it for all three, just the one that suits their needs best.

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I tried to stick to this, but zypper slowed waaaaay down after I added more than 20 repositories.

About ISP’s giving customers inferior service, firing staff and so on – they will do that anyway.
Just like EA laid off bunch of personnel after reporting really good year. Why? Because they are public company and after doing really good next step is to make even more profit.

The truth is, looking at this as “bad for company is bad for people” is a lost cause, because there isn’t really a mechanism that would work other way around. Meaning things can never go better for people.

This was a great show, one of your best in a little while. Ikey’s info on developing a game was very interesting. Stuart is an excellent guest host. I really enjoyed his contributions. The argument about ISPs was epic. Just solid from start to finish. Well done guys.

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Yeah, I see the discussion on Snaps being more so for Servers and IoT, but the people pushing Flatpaks are also the same people pushing toolbox and podman to manage containers. To me it makes sense to have Flatpaks on the desktops and Containers on the server, and if your on an Atomic OS like Silverblue, you have both ! Also, getting into why Red Hat/ IBM has moved this way I believe has to do with SELinux. Labeling your software easily is a caveat. I know a year or so ago, there were issues with SELinux handling Snaps, but I have not followed up on this in a while.

If I remember correctly some important Gnome devs that push the desktop forward (do not ask me who, I read some of there blogs) actually discourage the use of extensions and themes. They prefer that we use the ‘sane’ defaults. That does not mean you cannot use extensions. Yes, Gnome Shell is extensible but still, they encourage the defaults.

Funny is, I can live with that. I do not like extensions on my DE. And I agree, Gnome’s workflow is great. I live in the keyboard anyway. But the performance is my main problem and it is still not enough in my opinion, even with all the new improvements by Canonical or Fedora. Gnome feels sluggish, I would rather say is for me. Once you used something else you just cannot go back to its performance, compared with something like Plasma.

And still I also agree that Gnome out of the box looks more polished than Plasma. Every time I log into Plasma in something not Kubuntu I feel slapped in my face by its defaults.

Thanks for the great episode and interview with Ikey.